My concept on saying Please...

[Petie]

I am noticing, as I pointed out in another post, that I seem to be more strict than most on here, or maybe I just haven't read enough. At any rate, one thing I noticed is the "please" when you aren't really requesting.

"Please don't pull mommy's hair"
"Please don't pull the doggy's tail"
"Please put your shoes on"

In our house, we only say "Please" when "No" is a choice. Otherwise we state it...

"No pulling mommy's hair"
"No pulling the dog's tail"
"You need to put on your shoes"

If it isn't truly a request, we don't state it as a request.

Am I the only one who believes this?

For those who do request everything, can you explain to me WHY you would make a request when honestly you don't want them to decide "No"? Or is "No" an acceptable response and I am misunderstanding?

[PaxMamma]

people use "please" for many reasons. some use it b/c they truly do believe everything is a request. your child has a choice whether or not to hit, put on their shoes, etc. others use it as a model for politeness. they hope their children will model it back. there are many who use it just out of habit and never really mean it. and, like you, some only use it for true requests.

[AwakenedMama]

I realized a while ago that my job as a parent is not to control my child, but to guide her. Telling her what to do is taking a dominating approach, which is not the type of relationship I want to have. I don't tell her what to do. I explain what I would like her to do and why, and try my hardest to model that type of behavior. I don't want her to think it's ok to just demand that other people do things, so I'm not going to do that to her.

If I were an employee and had no choice but to do what my boss said, I would still prefer that he say "Please" instead of just demanding. Just as a sign of respect for the work I am doing, you know?

[Petie]

I realized a while ago that my job as a parent is not to control my child, but to guide her. Telling her what to do is taking a dominating approach, which is not the type of relationship I want to have. I don't tell her what to do. I explain what I would like her to do and why, and try my hardest to model that type of behavior. I don't want her to think it's ok to just demand that other people do things, so I'm not going to do that to her.

If I were an employee and had no choice but to do what my boss said, I would still prefer that he say "Please" instead of just demanding. Just as a sign of respect for the work I am doing, you know?

I completely understand that. And for many, MANY things I do make it a request, when time is not an issue, when I intend on helping, etc. But for things like hitting, or hurting others, well, I just don't agree. I don't feel that is a request at all. And I agree, I cannot control whether my child hits, but I can control my reaction to it. Meaning, I can walk away, I can remove myself and not allow them to hit me. I am modeling for them that I want them to have enough self respect not to allow anyone to harm them. That if they are ever hit, they need to state firmly, "You may not hit me" or just plain "Stop" and get away from the situation. I don't feel that a request at that point is appropriate, whether it's an adult at work, a spouse, or a child. Does that make sense?

The same goes for injuring other people or pets. To me, that is not at all a request. I have more than just a duty to protect my child, but to protect others that my child may hurt. I cannot make my child stop hitting, but I can inform them that it is unacceptable and then remove them from the situation.

As I read more posts here, I am getting a feeling that this board is more UP/NCP than gentle discipline or positive discipline. While I feel, personally, that UP/NCP is not right for my family, I respect everyone for using the parenting style that works best for their family. I just wonder if this is the right board for me.

[PaxMamma]

As I read more posts here, I am getting a feeling that this board is more UP/NCP than gentle discipline or positive discipline. While I feel, personally, that UP/NCP is not right for my family, I respect everyone for using the parenting style that works best for their family. I just wonder if this is the right board for me.

i can see why you would say that, as there are many UPers here. however, this is not a forum to perpetuate any one particular idea w/in the scope of positive discipline. this is a place for guidance w/in the support of the 8 Principles (http://www.attachmentparenting.org/principles/principles.php). now, that may include TCS (Taking Children Seriously), UP (Unconditional Parenting), CS (Consensual Living), among many others, but we are certainly not definited or limited to any of those particular philosophies.

the main point of Positive Discipline (or BFing, or Nighttime Parenting) is not PD for PD's sake. it is to nurture strong bonds and attachment through relationship. so, if that is your goal, you ARE welcome here!! :)

[MamaLion]

As I read more posts here, I am getting a feeling that this board is more UP/NCP than gentle discipline or positive discipline. While I feel, personally, that UP/NCP is not right for my family, I respect everyone for using the parenting style that works best for their family. I just wonder if this is the right board for me.

What is UP/NCP?

we are about half and half, sometimes I say please and other times I don't. Often it depends on DS's mood of the day and how many times I have already asked the question.

[Petie]

UP Unconditional Parenting
NCP Non-Coercive Parenting

I too, base alot of how I state things on the child's mood for that day. Some days, I know that simply requesting works really well. Other days, on bad days, sometimes I have to use a heavier hand, so to speak.

[MamaLion]

UP Unconditional Parenting
NCP Non-Coercive Parenting

I too, base alot of how I state things on the child's mood for that day. Some days, I know that simply requesting works really well. Other days, on bad days, sometimes I have to use a heavier hand, so to speak.

I've never heard of NCP :o

can you educate me on what the two mean?

[Petie]

I wouldn't know how. I don't use either. I am more of a gentle discipline, positive discipline person. From what I understand of NCP, they don't believe in using any rewards or punishments, everything is discussed between parent and child as equals, etc. But as I said, I don't fully understand those two, and I don't want to give a false impression about them. I use limited rewards and consequences, and my children are not allowed to discuss certain issues. Certain rules are set in stone, while others they CAN and DO discuss with us. But I don't feel that I fit into the NCP arena very well. Hopefully someone will come on that practices these and can explain better.

[missyloo]

I wouldn't know how. I don't use either. I am more of a gentle discipline, positive discipline person. From what I understand of NCP, they don't believe in using any rewards or punishments, everything is discussed between parent and child as equals, etc. But as I said, I don't fully understand those two, and I don't want to give a false impression about them. I use limited rewards and consequences, and my children are not allowed to discuss certain issues. Certain rules are set in stone, while others they CAN and DO discuss with us. But I don't feel that I fit into the NCP arena very well. Hopefully someone will come on that practices these and can explain better.

I read an interesting book about rewards and punishments....puts it much more eloquently than I ever could...

http://www.diesel-ebooks.com/cgi-bin/item/parent-9780743487474/Unconditional-Parenting-Moving-from-Rewards-and-Punishments-to-Love-and-Reason-eBook.html

I like Kohn, he seemed to think that it didn't work, I must reread it or buy it as I was lent it by another parent whn mine was very tiny, it didn't make sense then but maybe now I should read it, I think (and don't quote me) that it says rewards and punishments are not instrinsically motivating.....

Read the blurb in the link that gives you and idea.....


HTH Missy

[PaxMamma]

for UP, www.alfiekohn.com (http://www.alfiekohn.com) gives the best info, straight from the source. the article "5 Reasons to Stop Saying 'Good Job' " is a good place to start.

"Taking Children Seriously" has its own site as well: www.takingchildrenseriously.com (http://www.takingchildrenseriously.com)

i've never heard the phrase "Non-Coercive Parenting" but think it may be "Consensual Living".

the differences between these 3 styles can be very subtle to the outsider, but for those who go to the core of a particular style, they can sometimes find the differences glaring.

what's great about API and the 8 Principles (http://www.attachmentparenting.org/principles/principles.php), is that we can all come here to learn from and support each other, no matter which particular nuances we choose. as i said before, the point is the relationship that you are developing.

[MamaLion]

I know about Kohn but didn't know the "name"

I think the different types are similar to religion. It's the final result that matters vs the path taken :D

[EcoMaMa]

I wanted to say I use a combination of requests and statements.

Please do not take the papers of the mans desk. I say please because I like to model manners.
I rarely hear people say please, thank you or excuse me and I find it disheartening. Yesterday a women stepped in front of me at the store and knocked some things out of my hand. I said excuse me gently and she just stared at me like with that look I get a lot of what do I say. I watch this same woman just command her children and there is no demonstration that their children are individual beings and that even though they are doing something that may not be appropriate at the time, no one is saying please or thank you. Their children talk to each other and to their parents the same way.

I want the cereal, instead of may I please have the cereal. The mom complains they don't say please, but the children are doing as they see, not as they are told.
Then they say, well it wasn't something to be expected, it was a request. Maybe to the parent it was, but to the child it wasn't a request really. They truly want the cereal just as much as the parent wanted them to get off of the cart. Then I wonder at what age in that household does a child become an actual person who is deserving of being heard?

I also know there are families out there that don't complain when their children state what they want without please or thank you. This is just their form of communication and that is fine for them. There are a lot of families like that. Our local group has families like that, which sometimes causes conflict, but I remind my "social etiquette" families that again that is their culture, not the other families. Living in Brooklyn for so many years has helped me with that one. Each culture varied block to block so did the "social etiquette" and "manners". It was not that people were being insulting, it was their culture.

I had tried the statement only method with my girls when they were younger and for the longest time they used statements only to talk, but after awhile I noticed they were somewhat cold and detached. I wasn't comfortable with it. It feels better if someone asks you for something with a please and then says thank you. They are appreciative that you are taking the time to make things better.

For me it isn't about the actual act but an opportunity to learn manners and how to speak to another human being. The please is for not just my child, but about the person being harmed. Adding a please and a gentle tone reminds my child that this is a situation that requires kindness and humanity.
As a social learning situation it is also saying to them, I know you are learning this and I know it is going to take time, thank you for trying so hard to learn to be a better person. When I say please I stroke his hand very gently and if it was another person getting hurt, I stroke them gently and say I am sorry they were hurt.

I am also raising a child with emotional intelligence not just physical knowledge. (There are some wonderful books on emotional intelligence you can research with)
There are times, when it is dangerous I will say Do NOT run out into the street. It is an inanimate object and therefor I am not too worried about him having an emotional connection to it.

Eventually almost all children learn not to hurt pets or each other, but with the added lesson of manners they also learn to treat each other well instead of just commanding each other.

It has worked well for me as I have had only to do it for a couple of weeks years ago. I have people comment constantly that they are amazed at how sweet Ronnie is with other babies and children and I think back t the YEARS of struggle with my girls or foster children where I "expected" them to know or just command them into doing it and i wish someone had shown me an easier method to have them connect to each other and to me. Saying that it may not work for you or another person, but I like to hear all sorts of methods so that I can learn from it. Almost 27 years later and I am still learning. Each one of my children is different so I need to always be finding new methods and different ways to approach things. I don't want to be part of a group that only does things one way.

This board has a lot of range, and I am on other boards that some would consider way out there, but I love seeing the varied styles of parenting and what works for each family is different. There are so many variables about why one method works for one family and not for anther. Culture, social economic status, religion, regions we live in, family dynamic... all of those vary so all of our methods vary. Most of it comes down to being gentle and possitive and being comfortable in our choices.

Your method may work with another family so thank you for sharing it with us. It helps parents get that variety that they need.

Peace & Blessings,

Jo

[Petie]

Thank you all for your replies. I do appreciate you taking the time to explain. And hearing all the reasons has helped me understand where you are all coming from.

[missyloo]

I wanted to say I use a combination of requests and statements.

Please do not take the papers of the mans desk. I say please because I like to model manners.
I rarely hear people say please, thank you or excuse me and I find it disheartening. Yesterday a women stepped in front of me at the store and knocked some things out of my hand. I said excuse me gently and she just stared at me like with that look I get a lot of what do I say. I watch this same woman just command her children and there is no demonstration that their children are individual beings and that even though they are doing something that may not be appropriate at the time, no one is saying please or thank you. Their children talk to each other and to their parents the same way.

I want the cereal, instead of may I please have the cereal. The mom complains they don't say please, but the children are doing as they see, not as they are told.
Then they say, well it wasn't something to be expected, it was a request. Maybe to the parent it was, but to the child it wasn't a request really. They truly want the cereal just as much as the parent wanted them to get off of the cart. Then I wonder at what age in that household does a child become an actual person who is deserving of being heard?

I also know there are families out there that don't complain when their children state what they want without please or thank you. This is just their form of communication and that is fine for them. There are a lot of families like that. Our local group has families like that, which sometimes causes conflict, but I remind my "social etiquette" families that again that is their culture, not the other families. Living in Brooklyn for so many years has helped me with that one. Each culture varied block to block so did the "social etiquette" and "manners". It was not that people were being insulting, it was their culture.

I had tried the statement only method with my girls when they were younger and for the longest time they used statements only to talk, but after awhile I noticed they were somewhat cold and detached. I wasn't comfortable with it. It feels better if someone asks you for something with a please and then says thank you. They are appreciative that you are taking the time to make things better.

For me it isn't about the actual act but an opportunity to learn manners and how to speak to another human being. The please is for not just my child, but about the person being harmed. Adding a please and a gentle tone reminds my child that this is a situation that requires kindness and humanity.
As a social learning situation it is also saying to them, I know you are learning this and I know it is going to take time, thank you for trying so hard to learn to be a better person. When I say please I stroke his hand very gently and if it was another person getting hurt, I stroke them gently and say I am sorry they were hurt.

I am also raising a child with emotional intelligence not just physical knowledge. (There are some wonderful books on emotional intelligence you can research with)
There are times, when it is dangerous I will say Do NOT run out into the street. It is an inanimate object and therefor I am not too worried about him having an emotional connection to it.

Eventually almost all children learn not to hurt pets or each other, but with the added lesson of manners they also learn to treat each other well instead of just commanding each other.

It has worked well for me as I have had only to do it for a couple of weeks years ago. I have people comment constantly that they are amazed at how sweet Ronnie is with other babies and children and I think back t the YEARS of struggle with my girls or foster children where I "expected" them to know or just command them into doing it and i wish someone had shown me an easier method to have them connect to each other and to me. Saying that it may not work for you or another person, but I like to hear all sorts of methods so that I can learn from it. Almost 27 years later and I am still learning. Each one of my children is different so I need to always be finding new methods and different ways to approach things. I don't want to be part of a group that only does things one way.

This board has a lot of range, and I am on other boards that some would consider way out there, but I love seeing the varied styles of parenting and what works for each family is different. There are so many variables about why one method works for one family and not for anther. Culture, social economic status, religion, regions we live in, family dynamic... all of those vary so all of our methods vary. Most of it comes down to being gentle and possitive and being comfortable in our choices.

Your method may work with another family so thank you for sharing it with us. It helps parents get that variety that they need.

Peace & Blessings,

Jo

REALLY interesting what you say about culture, as in the Middle East where I lived before Aus it isn't part of a sentence to make distinctions between 'give me something' and 'please give me; 'may I have', it is only a direct statement that is used, I thought people were so rude at first but that's the culture and the language and there isn't a translation for the varied 'polite' ways we ask or request in the English language. So it's more the 'way' you say it there as opposed to the words used.

Very interesting indeed isn't it...thanks for your response that was good to read!

[AwakenedMama]

As I read more posts here, I am getting a feeling that this board is more UP/NCP than gentle discipline or positive discipline. While I feel, personally, that UP/NCP is not right for my family, I respect everyone for using the parenting style that works best for their family. I just wonder if this is the right board for me.

Yes, I do practice unconditional parenting. Meaning that I do not change the way I interact with my child based on her behavior. I think most parents love their children unconditionally, but that's not always the impression a child will get based on how others react to his behavior. Here's how I would handle the situations you mentioned (since some people asked for clarification on subtle differences):

I completely understand that. And for many, MANY things I do make it a request, when time is not an issue, when I intend on helping, etc. But for things like hitting, or hurting others, well, I just don't agree. I don't feel that is a request at all.

If it's not a request, it means the child doesn't have any role in the solution - they have to do what you're telling them. Which I don't believe is really possible, because they are a part of it. Anytime you want someone else to do something, I think it's a request, whether it's phrased that way or not.

And I agree, I cannot control whether my child hits, but I can control my reaction to it. Meaning, I can walk away, I can remove myself and not allow them to hit me. I am modeling for them that I want them to have enough self respect not to allow anyone to harm them. That if they are ever hit, they need to state firmly, "You may not hit me" or just plain "Stop" and get away from the situation. I don't feel that a request at that point is appropriate, whether it's an adult at work, a spouse, or a child. Does that make sense?

To me, this approach doesn't allow you to address the underlying need in your child. Leaving or telling them what not to do doesn't guide them. It leaves them there feeling badly (which they probably feel regardless of your response), but without an idea of what to do. Rather, I'd try to find out why they hit and help them work through whatever led to it. And, I may end it with the request you mentioned at the beginning "Please don't hit" although that part wouldn't be my main focus.

The same goes for injuring other people or pets. To me, that is not at all a request. I have more than just a duty to protect my child, but to protect others that my child may hurt. I cannot make my child stop hitting, but I can inform them that it is unacceptable and then remove them from the situation.

I agree to that I can help protect others from physical acts from my child. But I will protect my child's needs at the same time. So, if she is hurting the dog, I will also get her to stop, but I will not do it by physically pulling her away and telling her "Don't do that." I might do something like pick her up joyfully and in a playful way distract her from the situation, if I think she's just looking for something entertaining to do. And when she's ok later, I would explain to her that we want everyone in our house to be treated with kindness and respect, including our dog.

[Petie]

Yes, I do practice unconditional parenting. Meaning that I do not change the way I interact with my child based on her behavior. I think most parents love their children unconditionally, but that's not always the impression a child will get based on how others react to his behavior. Here's how I would handle the situations you mentioned (since some people asked for clarification on subtle differences):[QUOTE]

I like how you state this.


[QUOTE]If it's not a request, it means the child doesn't have any role in the solution - they have to do what you're telling them. Which I don't believe is really possible, because they are a part of it. Anytime you want someone else to do something, I think it's a request, whether it's phrased that way or not.

This is where I differ. If my child is hurting me, then no, they don't have a role in the solution. The ONLY role they can take is to stop hurting me. Otherwise, it is MY responsibility to protect myself. They do not have to agree, or like the fact that I will not allow them to harm me. I am making the decision to walk away, just as they made the decision to hit.

To me, this approach doesn't allow you to address the underlying need in your child. Leaving or telling them what not to do doesn't guide them. It leaves them there feeling badly (which they probably feel regardless of your response), but without an idea of what to do. Rather, I'd try to find out why they hit and help them work through whatever led to it. And, I may end it with the request you mentioned at the beginning "Please don't hit" although that part wouldn't be my main focus.

This is a concern, but to us, we believe that when our child is so overwhelmed that they resort to hitting, then they are not in the right frame of mind to learn new methods. We use calm times, after the incident, to teach and explain. And as long as they have not harmed anyone, we will sit there and teach them how to calm down, if they want us to. As soon as they lash out, then they are beyond the point of listening and learning. This is what I have found with my children, so please don't assume I am saying all children fall into this category.

I agree to that I can help protect others from physical acts from my child. But I will protect my child's needs at the same time. So, if she is hurting the dog, I will also get her to stop, but I will not do it by physically pulling her away and telling her "Don't do that." I might do something like pick her up joyfully and in a playful way distract her from the situation, if I think she's just looking for something entertaining to do. And when she's ok later, I would explain to her that we want everyone in our house to be treated with kindness and respect, including our dog.

I have to protect the ones being injured first. That is my priority. THEN, the aggressor will have their needs met. Now, I do not do this blindly. I have a daughter with asperger's and many times her needs outweigh those of the injured party, simply because if she lashes out, chances are that if I remove that which she can lash out against, she will start self injuring. I also have to ensure that the child that lashed was not injured themselves. I see the playful parenting as something I do with my younger children, when they were up to about 4 that would work. After that, I see the need to address the behavior, not just distract. And I don't physically remove them from the dog, I remove the dog from them;).

I don't know, I have a different outlook on these things. If I am scratching up a neighbors car, they are not going to say, "would you please stop, that is not nice, that is my car". No, they are going to come out tell me to stop and call the police. Same with hitting. If I walk up to a person and slap them because they upset me, they aren't going to politely ask me to stop. They will tell me to back off and then probably call the police. Since I see my ultimate job as a parent, as teaching my children to live in this world, I feel that I need to prepare them for the fact that many things are not acceptable, and many things will not be requests when we misbehave.

I think it is a careful balancing act for us. I have to be diligent in making sure they understand what is right and wrong in clear terms, yet not leave them without the proper coping skills in those situations. For me, often times, the most logical response is to state requests as requests and anything that isn't a request leave out the please. Mind you, this is only for misbehavior.

I can honestly say that I still don't fully understand how you all manage your methods, but I imagine you don't understand mine either. But I LOVE reading and learning about them. It is amazing how we all find what works best with our children. :)

[PaxMamma]

i see the varying viewpoints here as being really a lot closer together than farther apart. we all have a tremendous amount in common. we're all working so hard to help our children develop morally, not just behaviorally. and our relationships are the driving force behind everything we do.

as a moderator, i just want to also thank everyone for how respectful this discussion has been. it's so important to share our ideas and learn from everyone, even if we don't wholeheartedly agree. i can see that is truly happening here.

[EcoMaMa]

I am loving the perspectives in this thread. This conversation has pulled me in and I am loving the knowledge I am gaining from it. So many varied ways of doing things and all of them from such a loving peaceful place.

I am so thankful to be part of API. :heart

[luvsunflower]

I am loving the perspectives in this thread. This conversation has pulled me in and I am loving the knowledge I am gaining from it. So many varied ways of doing things and all of them from such a loving peaceful place.

I am so thankful to be part of API. :heart

I just want to say that as a somewhat 'newbie' to this forum and a new mom (ds is 11 months old) and relatively new to AP (discovered while pg) - I wholeheartedly agree with you. We have not yet formed our "methods" so to speak and are learning each and everyday with our lo.

Much of what has been discussed here I have not yet encountered with ds or very little - yet...... it is wonderful to read others perspectives and start thinking about what I would do in similar situations so I'm not dumbfounded for answers when the time comes.

Thank you all for sharing. I am very happy to be part of API as well and so grateful to have discovered it while ds is still so young and know that I will not regret my parenting decisions down the road. :hug

[AwakenedMama]

I can honestly say that I still don't fully understand how you all manage your methods, but I imagine you don't understand mine either. But I LOVE reading and learning about them. It is amazing how we all find what works best with our children. :)

Yes, we are all doing the best we can with what makes sense to us. Our goals are the same--it's our underlying philosophies and ideas about how to reach those goals that are different.

Really, back to the original question, I think the real reason I say please is simply because it feels right to me. I feel respectful when I say it, and I feel angry when I don't. Sometimes for me it's easier to put all philosophies aside and just do what feels right, with no explanations needed.

[mumtoone]

We say please for the same reasons that have been stated above. I think its just as important to be respectful and polite to the littlest person in the household as it is for us to expect him to be respectful and polite to us.

When it is in reference to harm being done such as DS hitting someone we will usually say something along the lines of "We do not hit in this family, hitting hurts. Please remove your hands" I think that the word please has many different uses.

I would never dream of asking say a cleaner at the office to do something without saying please.... technically you know that the cleaner doesnt really have a choice, unless they want to loose their job. But by saying please you are showing that you respect them as a person and the job that they are doing. I feel the same way with my little boy. While I may be asking him to stop doing something that I will EXPECT him to stop doing (such as hitting), I am still going to ask in a respectful way. In saying that if DS chooses to ignore my request then I as the parent also feel that there are further steps that need to be taken as it is my job to help him through this world and to learn things like empathy and respect... I believe that by showing respect we teach how to respect. Then if the hitting does not stop then it is my job to protect both him and the person who he is hurting. I do this by removing him and then explaining again why we do not hit. Its so hard to say definitively how we deal with these situations as they all come with different circumstances that need to be taken into consideration.

I agree that this is an interesting thread. And that it is lovely that everyone is remaining respectful of each others different way of doing things. :)

[Milkymum]

I understand exactly what you mean. I've thought about this before, and come to the conclusion that by saying please I am modelling the kind of speech I want my children to practice. Although for 'NO' things, such as no pulling mummy's hair, I don't think it is needed, but I would use it with an instruction, such as 'please pick up the toy you just threw on floor'. To me, please isn't necessarily giving a choice it's more for politeness. Although I do sometimes struggle to avoid say 'Can you..............' or stating instructions as a question, because then that is clear that's giving an opportunity to say no.

[itsallthereforyou]

"Please don't pull mommy's hair"
"Please don't pull the doggy's tail"
"Please put your shoes on"


Why is he pulling mommy's hair? Is he angry at her? Does he not realize that this hurts her, or even that he's doing it? Is it a ploy to get attention (which would mean he's not getting enough)?

Why is he pulling the dog's tail? Is it a desperate last resort to get whatever attention he can, because he's not getting the attention he needs? Is he just interested and not realize that he's hurting the dog?

Why doesn't he want to put his shoes on? Is it that he doesn't want to go to wherever you're going? Is it that they're too small and feel uncomfortable?

Look past the behavior. What is he feeling?


Other days, on bad days, sometimes I have to use a heavier hand, so to speak.

What a disturbing metaphor.

[Caprine]

Honestly, I am not a huge fan of the word please. It is short for "if you please," but none of us actually mean "could you get me a drink -- if you want to?" so why are we forcing our children to parrot what, deep down, is just a fake response that's taken on the connotation of politeness?

I encourage my daughter to say please in public situations where it is common courtesy, just to instill the habit so that she will have it as an adult. However, I don't require her to use it with me, and I certainly wouldn't use it with her if I was telling her not to do something. I am far from an authoritarian parent, but there are some rules of the family that we all follow, like no hitting. If I tell her not to hit, I don't mean "if you please" so I wouldn't say it that way.

[EcoMaMa]

I am genuinely asking when I say it, and if the answer is no, it is no.

I wouldn't force my child to do something for me that he didn't want to. The same is reverse. There are times he will say please and I will say I am unable to. Even down to a drink, and then he goes and gets one himself.

Example:
Sometimes I will ask him could he please open the back door to let the dogs out and if he is busy, he will say, mommy, I am playing blocks right now or whatever he is doing and I will go do it, but because we have the option to say no in our house nothing we say is fake or forced.

It is different for me to hear " but none of us actually mean", but again it shows where cultures and attitudes can vary from person to person and family to family.

I can see where you may feel that way if that is how you have learned to use it or are guiding another to use it, only as public courtesy and I do know many people who do similar.

Peace & Blessings,

Jo