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Pick-Up Put Down & Sleep Lady Shuffle

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  • Pick-Up Put Down & Sleep Lady Shuffle

    Are 'Pick-up Put Down' (Tracy Hogg) and 'Sleep Lady Shuffle' (Kim West) just different ways of Cry It Out? People keep recommending these to me and I haven't read the books yet but they seem like they might be just new ways to CIO? Any thoughts?

    I'm definitely not going to do CIO. However, I don't know what my other options are. I have a 4 month old whose sleep has been getting worse and worse for the past couple of months. She is very hard to get to sleep and doesn't stay asleep. I either nurse or bounce/walk her to sleep. However, if I bounce/walk her to sleep it takes 30+ minutes and she wakes the minute I put her down. About 50% of the time can be nursed back to sleep. The other times she's fully awake again. I wait 20-40 minutes before putting her down but she still wakes up. Or, she wakes up right in my arms if I wait too long. She also wakes about 8 times at night to nurse. Ideally, she'd like to just sleep with her little mouth on my breast. I also have to nap with her and go to bed when she does (7:30).

    Although I love co-sleeping, it's becoming tough because there is absolutely no alone time with my husband. Plus, I don't think my daughter is getting enough sleep. Sometimes she wakes up and I can tell she's still tired but she doesn't know how to go back to sleep. Poor little thing. Nursing doesn't always work.

    Any suggestions would be great! I should say that I tried Elizabeth Pantley's Gentle removal program (taking the nipple out of her mouth before she falls asleep). I can definitely try it harder and for longer. But, the problem I'm experiencing is that she gets so frustrated that she ends up waking up completely and won't fall asleep.

    Thanks so much!

  • #2
    I have not read the books you mentioned but they may be a version of 'controlled crying' which is CIO in smaller sections really.

    OK, So you would like to have your needs met better (more sleep, less night nursing?) and hers (longer periods of time asleep at night and nap). Is this correct?

    That is certainly doable in a gentle way...especially if you are willing to give it a little more time.

    4mo is really young still and I bet she is in a transitional developmental place...learning new stuff, seeing the world in a new way. Has she had any other sort of changes in family life, diet or enviroment. Those little things can have a big effect on a little babies sleep.
    She also might be pre-teething so that might explain the nursing and the waking.

    API link for you


    • #3
      Thanks Naomi! Yes, I can definitely wait a little longer for her to learn to sleep for longer stretches and a bit more independently. My main concern was that it has been getting worse for a couple of months so I was worrying that it was going to go progressively down hill.

      I don't even mind the night nursing so much but I would love it if she could take 1 nap a day on her own and also stay asleep for 1-2 hours on her own before I join her. Has anyone found gentle techniques that work to slowly make this happen? I'll also check out the other two books recommended on that link.

      I also recently keep hearing about cavity concerns for nighttime nursers. Always something to worry about ;-)


      • #4
        Don't worry about the night nursing and her teeth!
        Read this non-API link-

        I'll tell you what I did with my babies while young.

        Nurse to sleep on mattress on floor...wait untill arm was sleepy limp (when you pick it up and flops down, shows he is really in deep sleep) Put my arm on his chest while I roll my body away and hold in case he fusses a little bit (giving the illusion I am still there). Gently remove my arm and readjust how he is laying gently if he needs it.
        They both did grow out of being that sensitive for naps and nightime- It does happen!
        Don't give up, keep trying.....I know what it's like to just want a shower!


        • #5
          I don't know about Sleep Lady Shuffle but Pick up Put Down Tracey Hogg is just another version of Crying it Out - before I had my baby I thought her book (The Baby Whisperer) was brilliant - seemed so logical - but the reality is I wish I had never bought it - totally useless, especially for AP. It totally demonizes comfort sucking and is all about making baby fit into your old life.


          • #6
            I havent read those two books, but did peruse Baby Whisperer by Tracey Hogg, who authoured one of the two books you are asking about. Felt obligated to look at it, as it was given by best friend. Yuk, it only served to make me sad - not baby-centred at all. Don't know if that's any indication of her more recent book though.

            Just wanted to add that I've had similar problems with sleeping (I am the literally-attached mom from other post). I remember the desperation and worry when my little girl was 4-5 months, and I feel for you! I replied there today, but also wanted to mention specifically about naps. I had to sleep beside her for entire naps also, but at around six months, we found that if I could disengage nipple after she fell asleep, her first waking was EXACTLY 30 minutes later, time and time again. So, I would disengage, have a quick pee and coffee or whatever, and got back in there a few minutes before the 30 minute mark. She would wake, I would relatch and then her nap would continue on rather than a full awakening. (Still wakes at 30 minute mark today, at 8 months)

            I dont know if Stella has any patterns to her naps/awakenings at all, but just thought I'd mention it as something to watch for. I like to believe my little one doesn't even know I leave the room! Sometimes just getting to step out of the dark room and into the light of day is all the break I needed!
            Hang in there Stella's mom. I sense your love and commitment to her needs, and that's a warm and lovely thing!


            • #7
              Thanks for all the great responses! It's great to get ideas or even just support from likeminded moms. I know most of my friends have done 'cry it out' with their babies so I don't even bring up sleep problems with them anymore.

              When I was pregnant I heard about techniques like putting your baby down drowsy but awake and thought how logical. What a great way to get baby to sleep. Only Stella does not go to sleep like that and it would definitely require a lot of crying. I started co-sleeping and nursing on demand because it just felt right and the other style didn't work for us anyway. But, I was still feeling guilty and like I was doing something wrong. Then I found AP and what a relief it is! It's great to know that others are in the same situation and it's not a bad thing but a healthy great way to raise a baby!


              • #8
                The pattern that leanne mentioned is very true of my babies.
                I nursed mine to sleep in the nursing chair (computer chair!) and if I didn't put them up in the bed within 15 minutes the transfer would be hard and I would have to nurse them back to sleep. It was like I couldn't wait too long, or go too fast either. Every baby has it's 'sweet spot' in time.


                • #9
                  I purchased and read the Baby Whisperer at the suggestion of a friend, and was shocked to learn that this woman actually had children. If she did, she likely did not breastfeed them, as her suggestion that you wait at least 2-3 hours between feedings, even for a newborn, seemed not only ridiculous, but somewhat unsafe from a nutritional standpoint. After trying the "pick-up put down" with my baby (then 8 weeks) for almost 2 hours one day, I put the book on a shelf and have not looked at it since. I personally would not recommend this book to anyone, as I think the suggestion that life can continue on totally as it was pre-baby is completely unrealistic, and unfair to a child.