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  • Defiance

    Hello ladies,
    I have been a member of API for about 1 year, but this is my first time on the forum. I have been trying to find local AP connections here in SW Virginia, but to no avail. Would love to see a local chapter started, but I certainly don't feel qualified to "lead" anyone myself.
    My daughter is 4. She has always been bright, strong willed and opinionated (she gets it from both sides, Im not surprised). She is also a master negotiator. Most of the time we have a good time. Of course if she's over tired or not adequately prepared for any kind of transition she can melt down at the drop of a hat. We do use "time in" as a discipline tool when necessary-and there are very clear guidelines about when; hurting person/animal (we have lots of pets), not cooperating, doing something dangerous, or being rude. We also have established certain privileges that can be lost - her 1 "sweet thing" for the day, her tv/movie time, her bedtime stories for those days that if we relied on time-ins she'd be there all day. Recently I have had to deal with what am I to do if she just simply won't stay where she is to for her time in? At this point the only thing that has worked is sending her to her room by herself and enforcing her time there (holding her door shut if necessary). It doesnt feel good to do, but it has been effective. And this comes to my most recent hurdle- the just plain, simple old-fashioned battle of wills. What do you suggest when they just simply dig their heels in and act like a donkey? It makes my blood boil when she does it. My husband tends to concede to her demands and I see her not taking him seriously when it comes to discipline. She takes me seriously. But the only thing that I have found effective at times like that is to simply get up and leave, saying "bye-bye" and my retraction of attention seems to really rock her to her core and usually brings the conflict to a halt. I need a new tool though because it feels like emotional extortion when I do it and given her reaction I fear that on some level my retraction of attention also is interpretted as retraction of love-which is the last thing I want.
    My mom has teased me though that what they are like at this age is a window to what they are like as teenagers and if that's the case, we are going to be in trouble if we dont figure this out now!
    Thanks in advance for your input. Sorry for the length!

  • #2
    Originally posted by cmsobleo View Post
    Hello ladies,
    At this point the only thing that has worked is sending her to her room by herself and enforcing her time there (holding her door shut if necessary). It doesn't feel good to do, but it has been effective. And this comes to my most recent hurdle- the just plain, simple old-fashioned battle of wills.
    Hello,
    Have you looked into Unconditional Parenting by Alfie Kohn? Non-Violent communications would also be an excellent thing for you to look into at this point. (It did help with my son at 3 when we were starting to have the same issues you are having.) When using AP with children after they are toddlers I think we as parents need a whole new skill set to keep the connection. That reminds me--- Connection Parenting by Pam Leo is also really helpful. Please read some of those books and reread our Gentle Discipline Principle.

    http://www.attachmentparenting.org/principles/disc.php

    Connection Parenting book- http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/193...attachmentpare
    02&creative=380733

    Non-violent Communication--
    http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/189...reative=380733

    Unconditional Parenting--http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000V5ZTV4?&camp=212361&linkCode=wey&tag=attachmen tpare02&creative=380733

    Please feel free to ask more questions on this subject!
    Thanks

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by cmsobleo View Post
      Hello ladies,
      I have been a member of API for about 1 year, but this is my first time on the forum. I have been trying to find local AP connections here in SW Virginia, but to no avail. Would love to see a local chapter started, but I certainly don't feel qualified to "lead" anyone myself.
      I am sorry you are having trouble finding AP people in your area. How frustrating for you and when you really need support.
      That is why this board is so beneficial for members like yourself who come to API because they embrace API's vision but have no active grou0p near by. We in turn, can be your "active group" as we are API Leaders who are moderating this board. SO just like what you would get in a live meeting you get via posts here
      That said, as an API Leader, let me see how I can offer help here to your situation...
      Originally posted by cmsobleo View Post
      My daughter is 4. She has always been bright, strong willed and opinionated (she gets it from both sides, Im not surprised). She is also a master negotiator. Most of the time we have a good time. Of course if she's over tired or not adequately prepared for any kind of transition she can melt down at the drop of a hat.
      This is age appropriate behavior. She is still going through the processes of becoming her "own" person. She gets frustrated easily due to the fact, that she is going through this.
      Is there anything you have tried to do to help prepare her for those transitions?
      Like time warnings " Honey. we will be leaving in 5 minutes//then 3 minutes, 2 minutes..." give her time to finish what she was doing..ect?
      Having a hard time transitioning can also be a red flag to certain disabilities in children. Does she have any signs of issues that concern you?


      Originally posted by cmsobleo View Post
      We do use "time in" as a discipline tool when necessary-and there are very clear guidelines about when; hurting person/animal (we have lots of pets), not cooperating, doing something dangerous, or being rude. We also have established certain privileges that can be lost - her 1 "sweet thing" for the day, her tv/movie time, her bedtime stories for those days that if we relied on time-ins she'd be there all day.
      You are on the right track here about the *biggies* of discipline..hurting others and self are a no-no.
      now danger discipline comes from the word itself "teach your child about the danger" and creating an environment to keep dangerous situations or things out of a child's reach or ability to create..
      To take away things that are not behavior related (..ie she throws her toy and you take away her tv makes no sense as the two are not related. You should take away the toy in this case) cause confusion to her and do not stick as you have already found out.
      More than anything, she needs your support at this age, to know she can trust you to help her through this "growth;" to shape her behavior, create boundaries for her and help her when she "messes up."
      Originally posted by cmsobleo View Post

      Recently I have had to deal with what am I to do if she just simply won't stay where she is to for her time in? At this point the only thing that has worked is sending her to her room by herself and enforcing her time there (holding her door shut if necessary). It doesnt feel good to do, but it has been effective.
      This is good old mamma instinct kicking in
      Are you sitting with her in the time in?Are you making it a comfort corner for her to go to with a book she can read or her "time in" toys.
      Time in is to be used for people (yes adults too need time ins) to cool down cool off and think.


      Originally posted by cmsobleo View Post
      And this comes to my most recent hurdle- the just plain, simple old-fashioned battle of wills. What do you suggest when they just simply dig their heels in and act like a donkey? It makes my blood boil when she does it.
      Having a very spirited little girl myself, I know this is VERY hard.
      Again though ,it is a cry for help and support. Not to make your blood boil.
      She is coming into her will and you are the adult assigned to help her get there peacefully .
      It takes TIME a lot of it and a lot of discussion and consistency in your behaviors to her at that moment and deep breathing for your self before you approach her. I always have to take a minute when my DD gets to this point so I know I can handle it without making it into she is being disobedient to me thing. It is not about me!
      Originally posted by cmsobleo View Post
      My husband tends to concede to her demands and I see her not taking him seriously when it comes to discipline. She takes me seriously. But the only thing that I have found effective at times like that is to simply get up and leave, saying "bye-bye" and my retraction of attention seems to really rock her to her core and usually brings the conflict to a halt. I need a new tool though because it feels like emotional extortion when I do it and given her reaction I fear that on some level my retraction of attention also is interpretted as retraction of love-which is the last thing I want.
      If you tell her you are leaving her due to you need a time in or a break and let her know that you are available in 5 minutes this is not retracting love.
      This is actually a good way to model appropriate behavior to her.
      Modeling behavior is huge at this age, and she will look to you how to handle herself.

      Originally posted by cmsobleo View Post
      My mom has teased me though that what they are like at this age is a window to what they are like as teenagers and if that's the case, we are going to be in trouble if we dont figure this out now!
      Thanks in advance for your input. Sorry for the length!
      Ditto on the book Connection Parenting by Pam Leo. I think this will help you tremendously!
      bw's
      Last edited by harmonicker; 05-31-2008, 08:24 AM.

      Comment


      • #4
        I'm so glad that you're trying to help your daughter through this stage.

        I see a lot of excellent advice already posted! I don't have much to add, but I did think of a few things:

        1. I caution you not to label your daughter, which will then put her solidly in this label, as you notice new evidence that she really is "strong willed, opinionated, a master negotiator." My DS is now 2.5 years old. He has always had little to no patience, but I looked hard for the times when he was patient, and I'd comment "wow, look how patient you were!! You really wanted a turn on the swing, and you patiently waited for it to be your turn!" It has helped him enormously to see HIMSELF as a patient person, and it helps me to look for the times when he is patient.

        2. You might want to consider rewards rather than punishments. This is such a fun age, and I sense that you want to enjoy it with your daughter, rather than argue. In my house, whoever is ready first, and waiting by the door, gets to sit in the back of the van (a most coveted place). You might want to tell her that she can pick a music CD if she gets ready in under 5 minutes (or whatever she likes).

        I try to greatly limit the number of situations in which I could get into a battle of wills. So we have very few rules! There are some non-negotionables, but most things they do for themselves (I don't care if my DS wears his clothes backwards, or his sister's shoes), other things I explain why they can't do whatever (ex: last nite my DS wanted to wear princess shoes on a walk. I explained that they would be slippery. Since we have few rules, he was fine with not wearing them).

        We try to encourage independence (dressing by themselves, brushing teeth, picking out food at the grocery store) which is fun for everyone. I also try to offer choices: do you want to go to the grocery store first, or church? In my experience, usually when kids are 'defiant' it's because they feel that they dont' have enough say in their little worlds. So, I try to look for lots of opportunities for my kids to pick & choose.

        Oh, and I'd encourage you to apply to be a leader!! you're reaching out, doing research, focusing on your child--what more could someone want in a leader??

        HTH!!

        Comment


        • #5
          Thank you all for your input.
          I have the Connection Parenting book in my stack of "to be read" - I guess it's time.
          Can someone guide me to a good resource for "how to" on the time ins? I begin to think I may need to remodel ours.
          Im also going to try to be more clear with my dd when I walk away and maybe say something to the effect of "I will not argue with you about this, I need a break" when I leave.
          Oh, and if you have any suggestions on where/how I may find other AP families in my area I'd really appreciate it!
          Thanks.

          Comment


          • #6
            What area are you in?

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            • #7
              Originally posted by cmsobleo View Post
              Oh, and if you have any suggestions on where/how I may find other AP families in my area I'd really appreciate it!
              Thanks.
              try here
              hopefully you can find some people there

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by cmsobleo View Post
                Can someone guide me to a good resource for "how to" on the time ins? I begin to think I may need to remodel ours.
                in your OP, the way you describe "time-ins" really is more of a description of "time-out", which is not a Positive Discipline tool as defined by API. "time-ins" are described a little better here:
                http://www.attachmentparenting.org/f...read.php?t=652

                time-ins are a connection tool where you are spending time w/your child, time IN your lap (or next to, w/, beside, etc.) the idea is that when your child acts out-of-sorts, it's b/c they FEEL out-of-sorts. the connection piece allows you to help your child center and FEEL good again. it should in no way be used as a punishment.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Im in Waynesboro, VA - about 2 hours SW of Washington DC

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